July 24, 2014, 05:56:48 AM
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register
News: Download Vedic Astrology Ebooks under " Downloads" section.

Vedic Forum



Author Topic: Papa Karthari Yoga  (Read 9733 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline TC

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 520
  • Karma: +4/-0
Papa Karthari Yoga
« on: May 06, 2012, 12:01:46 PM »
Phaladeepika, in chapter 6 sloka 8 states that when the 12th and the 2nd house from the lagna are occupied by Malefics, a Papakartari yoga is formed. Phaladeepika goes on to give us a frightening description of the results of a Papa kartari yoga. In chapter 6 Sloka 11 it states that those born in a Papakartari Yoga are poor, unclean, miserable, bereft of wife and children, disabled and of short life.

Jataka Parijata in chapter 7 sloka 125 states  - "When the 12th and the 2nd bhavas from the Lagna are occupied by malefic planets the yoga is called Papakarthari, and in Sloka 127 it states that The person born in a Papakarthari will be criminal, eating begged food and impure"

Though  both texts attribute a Papa Kartari yoga as applicable only to the ascendent, it is logical and prudent that we extend the yoga's applicability to the benefics and the Moon - the Moon being the next most important ascendent. Experience has shown that a Papakarthari yoga has it's effects  on the other Grahas too.

When we talk of a PapaKartari yoga involving the Moon, we need to exercise a degree of caution, for, In chapter 6 sloka 5 Phaladeepika states,  If Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus and Saturn are posited in the 2nd, 12th or both the houses reckoned form the Moon then the three yogas respectively formed are called Sunapha, Anapha and Durudhara.  When neither of the three yogas defined above are formed there is the Kemadruma Yoga.  Some astrologers opine that there will be no Kemadruma if an Angle or the Moon is in conjunction with a planet or in the case of the planets occupying an Angular house reckoned from the Moon.

In chapter 6 sloka 6 Phaladeepika states that "The person born under Anapha yoga will be powerful, healthy, cheerful and courteous, reputed, with all the material comforts, well-dressed, happy and contented."

Jataka Parijata states,



It is plain to see that Ravi, Rahu and Ketu have been exempted from the scheme of Sunapha Anapha and Durudhara yoga, and that Kuja and Shani, two natural Malefics have been treated on par with Guru and Shani.

Jataka Parijata further states,



In actual practice however, it is observed that when Shani flanks the 12th house and if the Nodes occupy the 2nd house from Chandra, ill effects are produced. Though the placement of Shani in the 12th gives rise to a Anapha Yoga, it also causes an affliction to the Moon.

Let us take up a horoscope and examine this yoga in detail.

William Martin "Billy" Joel,  - born on the 9th of May 1949 at 09:30 (= 09:30 AM ) Place : Bronx, New York, 40n51, 73w54 Timezone EDT h4w (is daylight saving time)  is an American pianist, singer-songwriter, and composer. Since releasing his first hit song, "Piano Man", in 1973, Joel has become the sixth best-selling recording artist and the third best-selling solo artist in the United States, according to the RIAA.

Joel had Top 40 hits in the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s, achieving 33 Top 40 hits in the United States, all of which he wrote himself. He is also a six-time Grammy Award winner, a 23-time Grammy nominee and has sold over 150 million records worldwide. He was inducted into the Songwriter's Hall of Fame (1992), the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame (1999), the Long Island Music Hall of Fame (2006), and the Hit Parade Hall of Fame (2009). In 2008, Billboard magazine released a list of the Hot 100 All-Time Top Artists to celebrate the US singles chart's 50th anniversary, with Billy Joel positioned at No. 23. With the exception of the 2007 songs "All My Life" and "Christmas in Fallujah," Joel stopped recording pop/rock material after 1993's River of Dreams, but he continued to tour extensively until 2010. he is a multi talented individual who can play the Instruments Vocals, piano, guitar, harmonica, keyboard, accordion, organ, melodica, clavinet, percussion, and the harpsichord.

people born in Hasta are skilled with their hands - All other factors being equal.



Watch Billy Joel perform his hit " we didn't start the fire"

Billy Joel "We Didn't Start The Fire" HD


And yet his life in general is a misery, thanks to the placement of Chandra, the significator of the mind. Joel battled depression for many years. In 1970, a career downturn and personal problems aggravated his condition. He left a suicide  note (which inspired the lyrics to "Tomorrow Is Today") and attempted to commit suicide  by drinking furniture polish, saying later, "I drank furniture polish. It looked tastier than bleach." His drummer assistant, Jon Small, rushed him to the hospital. Joel checked into Meadowbrook Hospital, where he was put on suicide watch and received treatment for depression. Joel later recorded "You're Only Human (Second Wind)" as a message to help prevent teen suicide. In 2002, Joel entered Silver Hill Hospital, a substance abuse and psychiatric center  in New Canaan, Connecticut. In March 2005, he checked into the Betty Ford Center, where he spent 30 days for the treatment of alcohol-related problems


His married life was a source of trouble too. he has been married thrice and divorced twice.



Let us take a look at his chart. If we apply Day light savings time, the lagna falls in Mithuna. If we dont apply day light savings time ( Day light savings time was not compulsory in the U.S.A. till 1967, D.S.T. became the norm only after 1975. From 1945 to 1966, there was no federal law regarding daylight saving time, so states and localities were free to choose whether to observe it, and could choose when it began and ended) then the lagna falls in Karkataka, which makes gives rise to many more yogas to explain his success, than compared to Mithuna lagna. I shall take Karkataka lagna for reference.

However, my focus is not on the Lagna or the Houses. My focus is on Chandra, and by extension, the Chandra lagna. Thankfully, the lagna does not change Nakshatras or the Padas, which is a Good situation for us.
"A man said to the universe: 'Sir, I exist!. 'However,' replied the universe, 'That fact has not created in me, A sense of obligation.'"

Offline TC

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 520
  • Karma: +4/-0
Papa Karthari Yoga
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2012, 09:48:17 AM »
In their book "light on Life", written By Hart De Fouw and Dr Robert Svoboda, The Psychology of the planets have been described as,







It is clear to see that it is Shani who induces depression and Melancholy, while it is Ketu who induces Emotional tension. All the classical Texts on Jyothishya have stressed the importance of having a benefics aspect on the Moon, or, a Conjunction of a Benefic with the Chandra, or, in the least, a Shubha Kartari yoga involving Chandra. Chandra is a highly impressionable Graha and is  Readily or easily influenced by the influence of the other Graha's.

In the case of Billy Joel, There is a PapaKartari Yoga involving the Moon. What makes matters worse is that Shani casts his 3rd aspect on Ketu. One secret of Jyotishya is this,  "a Graha is weakened and afflicted to a great degree if the Graha is flanked by Shani in the 12th from it, and with another Malefic in the 2nd from it".  Not only does this constitute to a Papa Kartari Yoga,  the aspect of Shani makes the placement even more dangerious. Let me illustrate that with a visual aid in the next post.
"A man said to the universe: 'Sir, I exist!. 'However,' replied the universe, 'That fact has not created in me, A sense of obligation.'"

Offline TC

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 520
  • Karma: +4/-0
Papa Karthari yoga
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2012, 10:49:58 AM »


Guru is weakened not only by the fact that it is in a Papa Kartari yoga, but also due to the fact that Shani casts his aspect on Ketu.

Similarly, In Billy Joel's case, Chandra is caught between Shani and Ketu. Shani casts his 3rd aspect on Ketu thus increasing the affliction on Chandra. Notice that there are no planets in a Kendra to the moon. Also notice the aspect of Kuja from the 8th house from Chandra lagna. Dont be fooled by the fact that Ketu is in the 2nd house from chandra and so cannot exert a great influence on him. Ketu is at 1. 29 while Chandra is at 15.03 degrees. Hence he is within 17 degrees of the Chandra.

So what is the saving grace for Billy joel? How can he manage to function normally most of the times?

The Moon has three saving graces. 1.The moon is exalted in the Navamsha, 2.He is in a Pushkara Navamsha and 3. He is aspected by Guru who though debilitated, is himself in a Pushkara Navamsha. I shall explain the auspiciousness of Pushkara Navamshas in another thread. Had it not been for the aspect of Guru on Chandra, I wonder what his mental state would have been. Truely, Guru is a great saviour.  In Billy Joels case, the aspect of Guru and the fact that the Moon is in a exalted Pushkara Navamsha, has saved the day for him. This is why, it is prudent not to straight away declare the ill effects of a Yoga as described by the classical texts but look at the cumulative effects on the Graha before making a prediction.
"A man said to the universe: 'Sir, I exist!. 'However,' replied the universe, 'That fact has not created in me, A sense of obligation.'"

Offline TC

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 520
  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: Papa Karthari Yoga
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2012, 11:42:47 AM »


This is the horoscope which belongs to a patient of Mine. The person was born with a severe mental retardation. Chandra and the Udaya lagna are caught between Rahu and Shani. Budha and the lagna lord are caught between Ketu and Kuja. Note the proximity in degrees. There are other yogas which have contributed to the cause no doubt, but papakartari yoga has also played It's part. Dasha at the time of birth  -  Chandra dasha and the Antar dasha was of Chandra
"A man said to the universe: 'Sir, I exist!. 'However,' replied the universe, 'That fact has not created in me, A sense of obligation.'"

Offline TC

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 520
  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: Papa Karthari Yoga
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2012, 12:51:06 PM »


Peter Sutcliffe. also known as the "Yorkshire Ripper" as he killed 13 women and attempted to kill 7 more, mostly prostitutes. A swarthy, bearded Yorkshire man, Sutcliffe was a white male, a truck driver for the past five years. He seemed happily married; they had no kids. Formerly a gravedigger: a coworker related that he would open the coffin lids to look at the cadavers before burial. On the other hand, he was known as a gentle man, even sentimental, and his mother-in-law described him as loving, kind and generous. He and his pretty wife, Sonia, were married for six years, the first three of which they lived with Sonia's folks before getting a $90,000 suburban home of their own. His work took him away from home for days at a time.
 
His method was to pick up the woman on the street or in a bar and when alone, hit her on the head with a ballpeen hammer. He then stabbed the victim with a 10" knife or a 9" screwdriver and sexually mutilated the body. As a fetish, when he finished his savage attack, he put his victim's shoes neatly on top of her body.




He has spent nearly all his years in custody at Broadmoor after being diagnosed as mentally ill, but refused treatment until 1993 when the Mental Health Commission ruled it should be given forcibly.

Note the conjunction of Shani and Chandra in the same degree. Chandra is at 29.38 Deg while Shani is at 29.23 Deg. Chandra is now ahead of Shani and is caught between a Debilitated Kuja on one side Shani from the other. Shukra is caught between Rahu and Shani. Shukra is the 7th Bhava lord and is in a Parivarthana with the 8th Lord Budha. Parivarthana between the 7th and 8th Bhava lord is least wanted. Not many know this, but the 8th bhava rules the Sub conscious mind. any affliction that occurs to a Graha in the 8th house is amplified to a great degree, adding insult to injury. what happens when Chandra, which is the seat of the Mind, is afflicted to this degree, is there for all to see.
"A man said to the universe: 'Sir, I exist!. 'However,' replied the universe, 'That fact has not created in me, A sense of obligation.'"

Offline TC

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 520
  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: Papa Karthari Yoga
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2013, 02:27:52 PM »


This is the horoscope of a mother who killed her 7 year old daughter by stabbing her with a knife and then killed herself. The incident occurred on the 17th of May 2002 in the dasha of Ketu / Shani / Rahu / Kuja. The lagna and the Moon are caught between kuja and Ketu. The Moon is in the Nakshatra of Shani who is in the 6th, and is in a extreme fatal degree and is within the Trimsamsa degree.
"A man said to the universe: 'Sir, I exist!. 'However,' replied the universe, 'That fact has not created in me, A sense of obligation.'"

Offline TC

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 520
  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: Papa Karthari Yoga
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2013, 08:10:43 AM »


Great observation. You are absolutely correct in your assessment. His name is Carl Wayne Buntion. 

One point to note - treat war time horoscopes very carefully. If you see astrodata bank, you will find that the time zone is war time. I really don't know how many people followed it back then. So .........

But anyways, this looks like it is the correct ascendent. Note the debilitation of Budha without an effective neecha bhanga raja yoga. Budha has moved to a Gandanta degree and is Vargottama neecha. How about that? screwed up is an understatement.

"A man said to the universe: 'Sir, I exist!. 'However,' replied the universe, 'That fact has not created in me, A sense of obligation.'"

Offline TC

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 520
  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: Papa Karthari Yoga
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2013, 08:45:03 AM »
let me give you another example,

Thomas odle is a mass murderer of his parents and three siblings. On the morning of 08/11/1985, (Ketu / Moon / Guru) he drank whiskey and smoked marijuana laced with angel dust before repeatedly stabbing his 39-year-old parents, Robert and Carolyn, his brother Sean, 13 and sister Robyn, 14 with a butcher knife. His youngest brother, Scott, 10, had been strangled with his pajamas.

After spending the night in a motel with his girl friend, Tom was arrested the following day. His defense was insanity, drug use and a history of abuse. He said he was 11 when the family fights had begun that made his home a hell. On 29/11/1986, he was found guilty by the jury and he was sentenced to death on 01/07/1986. The death sentence was commuted to life in 2003.




"A man said to the universe: 'Sir, I exist!. 'However,' replied the universe, 'That fact has not created in me, A sense of obligation.'"

Offline aliya

  • Guru Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 80
  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Papa Karthari Yoga
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2013, 11:35:16 AM »
TC,
would a soldier fighting in the front lines have the same combinations ? The soldier kills for whatever reason is shoved down the throat, a criminal kills something else....how do you distinguish between the two ? what is the thin and fine line of  understanding such an action?

To journey without being changed, is to be a nomad. To change without journeying is to be a chameleon. To journey and to be transformed by the journeying is to be a pilgrim. --Mark Nepo

Offline TC

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 520
  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: Papa Karthari Yoga
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2013, 10:28:39 AM »
Dear Aliya,

The thin line is Dharma and Adharma. To be honest, no war can ever be Dharmic, unless you go to war in defence of your own people. Even there, you have soldiers that fight a clean war, and then there are soldiers who fight dirty and indulge in human rights violations. So there are criminals in the armed forces too. Robert Bales is a classic example. (He has his Moon caught between Shani and Ketu aspected by Kuja + born in Amavasya) He was a former United States Army staff sergeant who fatally shot 17 Afghan civilians in Panjwayi, Kandahar, Afghanistan, on March 11, 2012 – an event known as the Kandahar massacre.

In order to avoid the death penalty, Bales pleaded guilty to 16 counts of murder and six counts of assault and attempted murder in a plea deal. On August 23, 2013, he was sentenced to life in prison without parole.

When asked by judge Col. Jeffery Nance "What was your reason for killing them?", he said he had asked himself that question "a million times" and added, "There’s not a good reason in this world for why I did the horrible things I did."
"A man said to the universe: 'Sir, I exist!. 'However,' replied the universe, 'That fact has not created in me, A sense of obligation.'"

Offline aliya

  • Guru Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 80
  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Papa Karthari Yoga
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2013, 08:53:44 PM »
TC,
i have a hard time really figuring out dharma and adharma....i have never seen pure right in this world, not in me and others and that is a relief in a way......we all slip up, slam down but there is something called "decency"...well i think in the real world this will do...i have seen people who espouse the highest ideals but cannot implement "decency" in their lives...so me thinks i will pass dharma this time around :)


btw, Gayatri Vasudev states "Even if the potential for homicide exists in a chart,unless the right Dasas operate, the native may never resort to killing. For Killer Yogas, Killer Dasas are very important. In other words, Dasas that aid the translation of the killer Yogas into actual acts must run and also receive active support from transits at the same time for the native to actually kill.

apt,is it not ?
best regards,
To journey without being changed, is to be a nomad. To change without journeying is to be a chameleon. To journey and to be transformed by the journeying is to be a pilgrim. --Mark Nepo

Offline TC

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 520
  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: Papa Karthari Yoga
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2013, 08:06:05 AM »
Well I cannot whole heartedly agree with Gayatri Vasudev. Will a dasha change help a mentally retarded person? What about a con man? will a dasha change, make him stop conning people? Take Bernard Madoff's case. Madoff founded the Wall Street firm Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC in 1960, and was its chairman until his arrest on December 11, 2008.The firm was one of the top market maker businesses on Wall Street. All this time, bernie was out cheating his investors. He went through the dasha of 5 grahas before getting caught. take a look at his horoscope,



Note the ultra strong Kapata yoga and then the Papa Kartari yoga. These two yogas were so strong, even the exaltation of the lagna lord in the 9th, plus the Dharma Karmadipathi yoga of Kuja, Shrikanta yoga, and the Hamsa yoga of Shukra proved futile. Such is the power of the Nodes. I have to admit though, that the fraud escalated during his Rahu dasha.
"A man said to the universe: 'Sir, I exist!. 'However,' replied the universe, 'That fact has not created in me, A sense of obligation.'"

Offline aliya

  • Guru Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 80
  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Papa Karthari Yoga
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2013, 11:45:06 AM »
TC,
what G.D.V told was in the context of analysis of how a killer evolved. The heading is The Astrological Dissection of a Sniper Killer ...this is one person that you had also written about earlier...John William aka John Muhammed. She only talks about how the seeds are sown and if the right climate that is right Dasa comes, it germinates to give full effects otherwise no, which is a valid argument. The template for this would be Natal Horoscope-Dasa-Transits and not the expansion of the killer yogas and dasas to include everything from mental retardation to kapata.
If i was not clear earlier in putting the quotes across clearly, i hope i have made myself clear. She is very clear on what she says and i would hate to muddy that excellent intrepretation with my incompetence.
best regards,
To journey without being changed, is to be a nomad. To change without journeying is to be a chameleon. To journey and to be transformed by the journeying is to be a pilgrim. --Mark Nepo

Offline TC

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 520
  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: Papa Karthari Yoga
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2013, 07:53:36 AM »
I Get what you are saying Aliya. I also agree - to a certain extent that she has a point. But I have seen plenty of cases where the dasha scheme is not in sync with the afflictions that drives the person to commit the crimes he does. 

Since today is Ted bundy's Birthday, (24 November 1946 at 22:35 (= 10:35 PM ) Burlington, Vermont, 44n29, 73w13 Timezone  EST h5w (is standard time) let me use him as a example. Bundy has a severely loaded 4th house from where all his afflictions stem. In fact, He saw the dasha of Ketu which is in his 4th house and a participant in screwing up that 4th house. His Ketu dasha started when he was 6 and ended when he was 13. However, all the fuck up's started in Shukra Dasha. Look at where Shukra is. How could Shukra, who is in his own house, along with the 5th lord, cause such havoc? To top it, Shukra is in the Nakshatra of Guru. and yet ..........

So, my point is, an affliction to the mind, runs through out ones life. It might not be dasha specific. Though at times, a specific dasha might enhance the affliction.
"A man said to the universe: 'Sir, I exist!. 'However,' replied the universe, 'That fact has not created in me, A sense of obligation.'"

Offline TC

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 520
  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: Papa Karthari Yoga
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2014, 09:56:32 AM »
Saunders Scott is an American homicide/suicide victim, found dead, of gunshot wounds in the bedroom of his home along with the body of his wife, on the 17th of April 2002. They left three daughters, including an 11-year-old and twins Arianna and Alanna, age five. A good-looking black couple, Scott and Desiree seemed to have a perfect life, holding neighborhood barbecues at their newly renovated two-family home in Cambridge. Underneath, a tangled and violent family life was emerging with police showing up late at night and screams heard from the house. Even though the couple were in counseling, their fights and threats had escalated into physical violence. Scott worked as a computer network engineer at Fidelity Investments in Boston.

Take a look at his horoscope,



The murder occurred during the dasha run of Budha - Guru - Rahu - Rahu. Note how all the three Nakshatras, namely Shukra, Kuja and Rahu, are in the nakshatra of Ardra, ruled by Rahu. Ardra Nakshatra, whose symbol is a tear drop, has its diety in Rudra, the storm god who controls destruction and dissolution. Varahamihira states that Ardra indicates an irritable, ungrateful, troublesome person who is prone to insincerity and addicted to wicked deeds. Lack of gratitude and a certain malice are traditionally associated with this Nakshatra. Now put the lagna lord in this Nakshatra, and then flank him with two natural malefics in the same nakshatra, what you have, is a perfect recipe for disaster, like the one you just read above. What is interesting, is that the dispositor of the Moon is Shukra. Thus, both the lagna and the Moon are severely afflicted because their dispositor is the same. Another note worthy point, ........ no graha aspects the Moon, and there are no Grahas on either side of the Moon. Something to contemplate on.
"A man said to the universe: 'Sir, I exist!. 'However,' replied the universe, 'That fact has not created in me, A sense of obligation.'"

 

myvedicbooks.jpg